Plato, Socrates, and the Dialogues

Course No. 463
Professor Michael Sugrue, Ph.D.
Ave Maria University
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Course Overview

Socrates was driven by a love for truth so great that he suffered death rather than give up his search. Though he never wrote down his thoughts, he had a brilliant pupil in Plato, who immortalized his teacher's legacy in 35 timeless dialogues that laid the philosophical basis for Western civilization. In fact Alfred North Whitehead once famously remarked, all of philosophy is but a footnote to Plato.

Professor Michael Sugrue of Princeton University brings the Socratic quest for truth alive in these lectures, which discuss ideas that are as vital today as they were 25 centuries ago. Ideas about truth, justice, love, beauty, courage, and wisdom. Ideas that can change lives and reveal the world in new ways to the true student.

An Indispensable Companion

Next to the Bible, the dialogues are perhaps the most studied and scrutinized work in Western literature.

Professor Sugrue reveals the inner structure, action, and meaning of 17 of Plato's greatest dialogues, making this course an indispensable companion for anyone interested in philosophy in general or Platonic thought in particular.

The dialogues share some general characteristics:

  • They are not a soliloquy, but rather a discussion.
  • They are not between equals (there is a teacher-student relationship).
  • Plato himself never speaks.
  • Each dialogue is a work of art, but all, taken together, constitute one huge artwork.
  • At the center of the form is irony.
  • The dialogues are very clearly intended to be a teaching tool.

Dr. Sugrue shows how each dialogue breathes with the feeling, the tension, and even the humor of great theater.

On a human level, they testify not only to the greatness of Plato's gifts, but to the loyalty, friendship, and dauntless love of learning that he shared with his beloved master.

Explore Questions at the Core of What it Means to be Human

"What is justice?" "How should I live my life?" "How can we know what is real and what is illusion?" "Can a perfect society ever be conceived or created?" "What is human excellence, and can it be taught?"

Socrates gave his life to the study of questions like these, questions that have seized the minds of thinking people down the ages and which drive straight to the core of what it means to be human. Unlike nearly anyone before or since, Socrates was driven by a passionate love for thinking and talking about such questions.

Indeed, why was this love so great that when his gentle but fearless quest for truth aroused opposition, he suffered death rather than give up the search?

As you begin listening to these tapes, you may find yourself wanting to read or re-read the dialogues. As Professor Sugrue observes, you can't really read Plato until you've read him three or four times.

But even if you don't have time to reacquaint yourself directly with Platonic texts, this course will benefit you enormously with its insight into the depths of reflection opened by Socrates and Plato—arguably the most important teacher-student pairing in history.

You will become engrossed in "the romance of the intellect" as Professor Sugrue opens a path for you into the inner structure and action of these selected dialogues, for millennia the objects of devoted study by the noblest minds.

He explores the dialogues' relations to one another, conveying the grandeur of the Platonic project in all its breadth and profundity.

Learning Not What but How to Think

This course offers no easy answers. What it gives instead is much better: an introduction to Platonic "meta-education," the art not of what to think but of how to think.

You see the stunning subtlety with which Plato weaves together the strengths of philosophy and poetry, dialectic and drama, word and action.

And you catch a glimpse of the "serious playfulness" that Socrates says the search for the good, the true, and the beautiful can inspire in the human soul.

Let the "Socratic Method" Come Alive for You

Plato, Dr. Sugrue maintains, is "the necessary starting point for any study of Western philosophy. In many of his dialogues, he speaks through the person of his revered teacher, Socrates, using the dialogic form that is still today termed the 'Socratic method.'

"These lectures analyze this form and then discuss certain key dialogues and other writings that address issues concerning governance, knowledge, reality, virtue and others that have engaged philosophers both before, but especially since, Plato."

There are 35 dialogues, plus letters, surviving. They may be divided into three general groupings, based on chronology and topic. The major dialogues, by group, include:

  1. Early (skeptical and ethical): Apology, Crito, Laches, Ion, Euthyphro, Hippias Minor, Protagoras, Gorgias, Euthydemus, Hippias Major, Lysis, Mexeneus. These dialogues end in an impasse ( aporia ) which invites further contemplation.
  2. Middle (dramatic): Meno, Phaedo, Symposium, Republic, Parmenides, Theaetetus. These deal with moral order, being (ontology) and knowledge (epistemology) and are generally, but not always, more dogmatic than skeptical.
  3. Late (less dramatic and poetical, more analytical and concerned with saving the moral and political order, less emphasis on Socrates): Timaeus, Critias, Sophist, Statesman, Philebus, Laws. 

 

The World to Which Plato was Heir

"This exploration of the thought of Plato necessarily makes us consider the Greek world of thought and literature, to which Plato was the heir," states Dr. Sugrue.

"In fact, in a play on the quote from Alfred North Whitehead, it has been suggested (half-seriously) that Plato is merely a footnote to Parmenides of Elea. Thus, we also consider other philosophers and their schools, as well as the world of 5th century B.C. Greece as we explore Plato's fascinating world of Greece and of the mind."

Thus Professor Sugrue introduces you to Plato's milieu, post-Periclean Athens, and explains how the failings evident in that city's social, civic, and intellectual life spurred Socrates and his pupil to do their work of searching and often painful criticism.

Before Socrates and Plato, Greek philosophy was primarily speculative about the nature of the universe and the world and mathematics. The philosophers before him are generally grouped together and termed the "presocratics." Their main concern was in the area of nature or "physics." Among the famous presocratics are Pythagoras (born c. 570 B.C.), Parmenides of Elea (c. 515 B.C.) and Heraclitus of Ephesus (died after c. 480 B.C.).

Closer to the time of Plato and Socrates a new school of thought developed, that of the Sophists. Perhaps the best-known Sophist is Protagoras (c. 490-c. 420 B.C.). They were a more skeptical group who did not focus on the natural (physical) world or speculative cosmologies.

Both Socrates and Plato were opposed to the Sophists, viewing Sophists as morally empty teachers who instructed young men to argue only for victory and sought money, rather than wisdom and truth, as the end for their techne (art of teaching rhetoric).

A New Kind of Hero

The dialogues, as Professor Sugrue shows you, are far from being dry treatises or bloodless catalogues of arguments.

You learn how Socrates speaks differently to different interlocutors, and how Plato intends him to be a new kind of hero, superior to any who had gone before.

You also reflect on the implications of Socrates's famed professions of ignorance, and the enigmas and ironies that shadow him and his enterprise.

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16 lectures
 |  Average 45 minutes each
  • 1
    The Domain of the Dialogues
    This lecture describes the life and times of Plato and Socrates, the structure of the dialogues, the way the style of argument in the dialogues progresses, and the best ways to approach understanding this body of work. x
  • 2
    What Socratic Dialogue Is Not
    Professor Sugrue shows some of the methods used by Socrates to begin his caricature and demolition of the Sophists, and his long search to answer the question: "Can virtue be taught?" x
  • 3
    The Examined Life
    In the Timaeus, the origins and principles of the physical world are discussed. In the Theaetetus, Socrates engages a young wounded man in a discussion of knowledge, edifying the young man before he dies and before Socrates is taken away to be tried and executed by Athenian authorities as a corrupter of youth. x
  • 4
    Tragedy in the Philosophic Age of the Greeks
    The Apology, the Crito, and the Phaedo are the stories of Socrates's trial and execution. Professor Sugrue explores the motif of heroic journey from this new type of Greek hero, who looks at his accusers with courage and resolve as he faces death. x
  • 5
    Republic I—Justice, Power, and Knowledge
    This lecture focuses on Plato's development of his political, ethical, and educational theories. Socrates and Thrasymachus, a cagey Sophist, struggle to define justice and to determine whether it is an art that can be practiced. x
  • 6
    Republic II–V—Soul and City
    Socrates continues his search for the meaning of justice; the Homeric virtues and heroes are discussed and dismissed as corrupt; and Plato describes the ideal city. x
  • 7
    Republic VI–X—The Architecture of Reality
    Here, Professor Sugrue explains Plato's myth of the cave, the hierarchies of human moral development and the political regimes that accompany each, and the criticism of tragedy and comedy. x
  • 8
    Laws—The Legacy of Cephalus
    Professor Sugrue argues that toward the end of his life, Plato recognized serious problems with his philosophical positions—so serious that he wrote very little for more than 10 years—and that the Laws is one of the dialogues designated to a "second best" philosophical position. x
  • 9
    Protagoras—The Dialectic of the Many and the One
    A comic dialogue in which Socrates develops his argument on the nature of virtue, concluding that virtue is knowledge and, therefore, can be taught. x
  • 10
    Gorgias—The Temptation to Speak
    Socrates engages Gorgias, one of the great Sophists, in discussions of virtue and education, and converts Gorgias to teach true virtue rather than the corrupt craft of rhetoric. x
  • 11
    Parmenides—"Most True"
    This dialogue prefigures Hegel for its baffling qualities; it is a protracted and very difficult discussion on the nature of being and the consequences of Plato's conclusions for the theory of the ideal forms of being. x
  • 12
    Sophist and Statesman—The Formal Disintegration of Justice
    This pair of dialogues continues Plato's later project to expose the weaknesses of his earlier works and to propose and defend a workable theory and practice for knowledge and politics. x
  • 13
    Phaedrus—Hymn to Love
    The great lyrical masterpiece of Platonic poetry. The main themes of love and rhetoric are bridged by related themes: identity, the soul, desire, and the longing for ultimate beauty. x
  • 14
    Symposium—The Pride of Love
    Plato's famous description of a drunken discussion among Socrates and other remarkable Greeks concerning the nature of love. x
  • 15
    The Platonic Achievement
    Professor Sugrue summarizes his view of the intended and actual effects of Plato's work. Platonic argument is usually appreciated as the origin of Western speculation, but it is at least as important, Sugrue argues, to view Plato form the perspective of the intellectual traditions he continued and transformed. x
  • 16
    The Living Voice
    Professor Sugrue attempts a summary and understanding of Plato's new hero, Socrates himself. This hero, as seen through the dialogues, is a deeply ironic character because his questions often lead to no conclusions; he is distrustful of the written work and yet that is how we come to know him. x

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  • 104-page digital course guidebook
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Your professor

Michael Sugrue

About Your Professor

Michael Sugrue, Ph.D.
Ave Maria University
Dr. Michael Sugrue is Professor of History at Ave Maria University. A graduate of the Great Books Program, he earned his B.A. in History from the University of Chicago and his M.A., M.Phil., and Ph.D. in History from Columbia University. Prior to taking his position at Ave Maria University, Professor Sugrue taught at Princeton University, the City College of New York, Columbia University, Manhattan College, New York...
Learn More About This Professor

Reviews

Plato, Socrates, and the Dialogues is rated 4.5 out of 5 by 60.
Rated 3 out of 5 by from A basic, inelegant introduction The immediate impression is that of a fawning fanboy to Plato, which diminishes somewhat only to burst full force in the conclusion. Though, not very elegant in his own right, the lecturer gives a decent enough, encouraging overview and some interesting indicators of what to look for. His enthusiasm does overflow the cup on occasion and makes him seem drunk, incoherent and repetitive. One point worthy of note is that he mentions that Plato took this great cultural task upon himself and admittedly failed, though perhaps not as a pathetic but a heroic failure. He is not critical enough of Plato's last minute compromise which represents not an improvement but a decline of form. He is also glossing over the fact that in tipping his hat to Parmenides, he clearly tipped it the wrong way. Mistakes happen but with his embrace of mysticism and rejection of physics, with the best of intentions, Plato ended up doing harm as well as good and his lasting influence on western thought has to be criticized rather than celebrated, though the elegance of his writing, especially in his portrayal of Socrates, however distorted, is undeniable.
Date published: 2018-11-14
Rated 5 out of 5 by from One of the best... The last lecture is worth the price of the course, and the course is priceless. A great experience with Professor Sugrue.
Date published: 2018-09-02
Rated 4 out of 5 by from Not my fovorite, but still worth hearing This is the fourth course I have taken devoted exclusively to Greek philosophy. I have heard Professor Roochnik’s courses, one a survey overview of Greek philosophy, and the other a focused, quite in depth course on Plato’s republic. I also heard Professor Bartlett’s course devoted to Plato, Socrates and Aristotle. While superficially it seems that there are two many courses on the same topic, the courses do differ significantly in their focus. Professor Roochnik’s general survey has a significant portion dedicated to the pre-Socratics and while the sources are very vague on this topic it still provided and important context for the three big philosophers that followed. His treatment of Plato’s dialogues was quite thorough and wide, but nowhere near as profound as his treatment in “Plato’s Republic” which has a narrow breadth of focus. Finally, the current course surveys quite a lot of Plato’s dialogues and many that are not surveyed in any of the other courses. It also surveys some of his latest dialogues in which Plato seems to have second thoughts about key concepts of his earlier works – such as for example his perfect Platonic forms. This seems to stem from dialogues or interactions he had with other Greek philosophers, or at least this is the way it is narrated in these dialogues. This was a perspective I only got from this course and it was worth hearing. Professor Surgue’s presentation style was interesting, dynamic and easy to stay attuned to. I was a bit surprised by the narrative style though: it almost seems like Professor Surgue is treating the dialogues like boxing matches between Socrates and various opponents, giving a blow by blow account of the fight until the inevitable Socratic knockout. There was very little mention of Plato’s famous irony, in which case he is presenting a particular narrative but we are not sure if he is being strainght and agreeing with the perspective of his key protagonist – Socrates, or being critical. All of this was conspicuously missing and in my opinion, made the dialogues less interesting.
Date published: 2018-08-01
Rated 5 out of 5 by from Wondetful Gave me a new understanding about things I was pondering upon for a long time.
Date published: 2018-06-14
Rated 3 out of 5 by from Sugrue is a Fanboy—But That’s OK Dr. Sugrue in presenting Plato’s Dialogues takes an approach that is a lot of fun, at least initially. But as he continued to use the phrase “HahHahHahHah” as a putdown of the Sophists (or pretty much anyone who comes out on the short side of Socrates) becomes wearing after a short while. Ditto to his repeated comment that should the student not understand how brilliant and moving Plato’s writing is, it is clearly the student’s fault (with the implication that the student is a part of the great unwashed). And double ditto for his repeated dismissal of the Sophists. This may or may not be warranted, but his continual use of such pejorative modifiers as ‘stupid’ or ‘dumb’ does not advance any intellectual argument. Here I think that neither Plato nor Socrates would be well pleased. OTOH, with these nits picked Professor Sugrue’s casual approach makes it easy to fall in and listen. Sort of the opposite of Professor Roochnik’s approach in his course on the Republic. I admit that I did at times have to force myself to pay attention at times as Dr. Roochnik was speaking. But I never thought that he was insulting anyone. And there is plenty to be learned from Dr, Sugrue. For me there was quite a bit of insight given in learning about Plato’s use of symbolism. I found the lecture on the Timaeus to be outstanding, as was his explanation of the Phaedrus. But the lecture on the Symposium was to me, a hatchet job. To be sure, Professor Sugrue points out the humor (and often wants us to understand the Socrates is deliberately being funny), but too often in this lecture value judgments about characters are being made that I suspect would not have been made by Socrates, or if they were, made much more subtly. The structure of the course seems a bit odd (or perhaps just an old-style course) as it has only 16 lectures. As the lectures are each 45 minutes, we get the same amount of time as 24, 30-minute lectures. So what to do? I liked the casual, irreverent style of the presentation, but often not when it became pejorative. The Professor made It easy to listen to this course, but not when he fell back on “trust me” as the reason underpinning his arguments. Good things and not so good things. I’d like to see a Socratic dialogue about his approach with a peer. Provisionally recommended for some real insight and enthusiasm.
Date published: 2018-05-18
Rated 5 out of 5 by from Prof. Sugrue is the Best I loved every minute of the lectures, I just wish Prof. Sugrue had more classes available on this platform
Date published: 2018-04-09
Rated 3 out of 5 by from Dialectic hydration... "Go play with the Dialogues", says Professor Sugrue in the last lecture of this set. I think that just about sums up the other lectures as well...with Sugrue playing with Plato's dialogues in no particular order, with little or no context surrounding his one-sided dialectic with us. I jumped into these lectures after listening to Dr Roochnik's set on the 'Republic' (and reading the 'Republic' as well), expecting the same, thorough treatment of some pretty heavy-duty examinations of Plato's other works. What I got was a rapid-fire delivery (often interrupted by a pause for a drink...probably water, but who knows?) that skimmed over some pretty complex arguments/discussions with a great variety of Socrates' (Plato's) interlocutors. I found in the Roochnik 'Rupublic' lectures that the devil is in the details...or the meaning of the dialogue is not the conclusion, but the discourse in reaching that conclusion. I was somewhat off-put by the use of terms like 'stupid' and 'dumb' when referring to Socrates' interlocutors...this device may work well in a class room, but doesn't translate to audio lectures well. In the end, I recommend these lectures mostly as an introduction to one person's interpretation of Plato's dialogues...mostly because (as the good Dr Sugrue says), it urges you to think for yourself, and, of course, hydrate. As the great philosopher Master Yoda has observed, "...sale and coupon have you must "
Date published: 2018-03-23
Rated 5 out of 5 by from Epic! Very interesting and informative. The professor is a very good speaker and has very interesting analysis of the dialog used.
Date published: 2018-01-08
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